Cameron (00:00.924)
Hello and welcome to Thinking Out Loud. I'm your co host, Cameron McAllister.
Nathan (00:04.884)
And I'm your co-host Nathan Rittenhouse.
Cameron (00:06.684)
Don't worry, we won't get too political. But a big thing happened this past election cycle. A blue, something very blue happened, and there are many responses to it. So I don't want to get I don't want to use this as an occasion to get into politics. What I do want to talk about is insularity. The fact that some of us don't get out that much. So I'm going to speak. It sounds like I'm being really virtuous and bending over backwards to protect this person's privacy. But the truth is.
I cannot find the clip again. If I could, I might give the name, but I'm not when I describe it, there's a good chance you've seen it. This person has seven million followers, seven million plus or something on social media, so quite a presence. I had no idea who who he was. This is why celebrity We don't get that wait, yeah, but also this is why celebrity is largely meaningless. You have all of these influencers who have millions of followers, legions of fans, and you very likely have never heard of them because there are so many of them.
Nathan (00:52.45)
That's cause we don't get out that much.
Cameron (01:06.172)
But anyway, I digress. This person basically just said, so he he he was responding to a couple of posts. And they were posts with messages like this. Yes, yay for this victory. I'm going to go to my local, you know, women's clinic and get an open tab. Or we are gonna s we are so gonna trans your kids. We're gonna trans your pets, you know, and on and was responding very with great sincerity and treating the
really responding to the the moral gravity of these statements was very upset and talking about that and consequences of voting. The problem was, as several people were pointing out, all of these posts were jokes. They were satire. And this person was r responding with great sincerity. So the people, some of the people who responded, one of whom was w identified as an ex-vangelical comedian, actually pretty generous in the response.
didn't do the character assassination thing or anything like that. But what he did say was this is a this is proof that you likely don't actually talk to people who disagree with you. You that you can't even see this is satire. You don't get out much. You don't get out enough. If you actually want to talk to people about their views and perhaps persuade them, you have to actually talk to them. I thought he had a point. And I thought we could talk about it.
Here. And there's some tension here, Nathan, because scripture at l'ets just on the surface, scripture appears to speak out of both sides of its mouth on this issue sometimes to me. I think if you're just looking at it for for basic guidance, on the one hand, you will have Jesus very emphatically saying to his disciples, you know, I do not take I send you out into the world. I do not take you out of the world. You have exhortations to be salt and light. You have exhortations to be
In the world, but not of the world. That's the kind of short phrase we use sometimes. But then you also have bad company corrupts. You have you know, admonishments to avoid certain kinds of people. So we we should work through some of this. We're not gonna tie it all up neatly with a bow. That's not what we do here. We want to we want to help stimulate thought. But I did I did want to acknowledge that biblically speaking, Nathan.
Cameron (03:31.664)
If you put your pastor's hat on here a little bit, it does seem that we've got some different messages. So let's walk through that a little bit.
Nathan (03:41.268)
Yeah, and I'm trying to think through on this example,
I I think I think it works, but it's it's also indicative of of a total d does online engagement count as getting out there and talking to people? Hmm, not not in my mind. So so this is cause I'm sure there are people who are saying things like that that aren't jokes out there. Now, in this case, you know, the the the the clip is what it is because you have somebody who's sincerely responding to things that are clearly jokes.
You could also say the fact that those are the types of jokes being made also say something about our culture. and so to to me the we we can use this as a device to discuss it, but it it is also conceding, and and I want to hold a little reservation here of saying the the get out and like I I don't think Jesus' missional impulse
Nathan (04:40.427)
how do I want to word this? I gotta think. Yeah, d does keyboard warrioring count as go ye into all the world? And I'm skeptical.
Cameron (04:48.368)
Yeah. I'm skeptical. And this is one of those areas where I mean one of the many places I want to say something larger here just for a second. And then Nathan either push back or reinforce what I'm saying. Help me, brother, is what I'm saying. But I think a lot of us are tempted to look at scripture as a manual for life.
There are aspects of it that can be seen in that way, but it really isn't. It's not a manual for life. Does it contain commandments? Yes. Does it com main contain, you know, the law? Yes. The prophets? Yes. Christ's commandments? It does. Is it mainly a moral tract telling us how to live our lives? I don't think it is. I think it's God's word, and I think it's the grand drama of the living God, Father, Son, Holy Spirit is.
And his relationship with humanity and the reconciliation that takes place. I think that's what scripture is overall. When we see it in those terms, I think that can help us to approach the text with with more realistic expectations. I feel this way, Nathan, when people ask me questions like, What does scripture say about AI? Well, nothing. What is scripture but I remember
Nathan (06:08.674)
Yeah.
Cameron (06:10.576)
I don't know if this is a phantom in my mind because I've had a hard time tracking it down again, but I seem to remember NT Wright in 2020, kind of in the height of lockdown phase, writing an article for Time magazine. And the title at the time was something like COVID. The Bible tells us nothing about COVID nineteen. Because people were trying to use the Bible in naive ways to say, well, here's what it's how it specifically speaks right now to this policy matter, this masking matter. And he was saying it it doesn't.
It just doesn't at all. And it's not it doesn't have to. And I think this is where so back to your keyboard warrior comment. Yeah, scripture doesn't say anything about modern technology or anything like that. What it does tell us is that human beings are made in the image of God. It does tell us that we are to love our neighbor. It does give to us the parable of the good Samaritan.
So just based on what I've said right there alone, we have enough of a vision to guide us in our interaction with human beings. It's not an explicit rule book necessarily, but it would if you take all of what I just said and put it into practice, the keyboard warrior thing's gonna take a backseat. And you're going to prioritize relationships, which means you are you work in smaller terms and more intimate terms and more risky terms.
Nathan (07:33.507)
Yeah. So I I think the one of the there there are a couple categories that maybe are are missing here in the the thing that you've laid out for us i in our modern conversation. And so we can we can say that yes, the Bible isn't a manual. Jesus is our model. And so the Bible does give us a a a lot of clarity on like so yeah, it it doesn't say anything about the use of technology, but it does lay out a very clear moral framework, like you said, for how to treat other people.
decently. The the the the thing to go beyond it is so you can get you could just get stuck at as the Bible is a manual, i is insufficient. To say that Christ is our model for ethics is also a meaningful statement. We were predestined to be conformed to the image of the sun. I think that inhabits an a whole structure of behaviors, means and methods. But then Cameron, what we do
Cameron (08:28.146)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, sure.
Nathan (08:29.952)
maybe are what we're missing right now is a recognition that Jesus in all of his wisdom and the clarity of his teaching and the beauty of his life and the compassion I had for humanity then said, It is better that I go.
Because when I go, I'll send the Holy Spirit and who will teach, convict, guide, glorify. I think of statements like in in Titus two, where it says the grace of talks about the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, and it teaches us to say no to ungodliness and to live upright and godly lives in this present age while we wait for the blessed hope. And that ends with saying that Jesus has purified for himself a people who are his very own, eager to do what is good.
And so this idea that the grace of God teaches us to say no to ungodliness, or that the Spirit comes and gives us wisdom and discernment, this is a whole so that that is not an anti Bible statement. It's the the fullness of what the Bible, what the scriptures are pointing to. And so what I think we're seeing here is a lack of wisdom and discernment. so sometimes it's just a lack of biblical knowledge and wisdom of like, yeah, actually there are things that the Bible is pretty clear about.
Cameron (09:13.842)
Mm-hmm.
Nathan (09:41.015)
Do this, do this, do this, don't do this, this, and this, and this is why. and we can get into that. So that's the basic. And then there is what's the way in which Jesus did this? And then there is, is there a way in which we are actually actively hearing from and responding to the Spirit of God working in our lives to give us the proper wisdom and posture, conviction, compassion, whatever is needed to go about living our daily lives? And I think when we get into that.
we're being more faithful to the the scripture, but at the same time it so so to say that the Bible doesn't so I'm I'm totally with you. Like there's a book of numbers in the Bible and it's no help at calculus. Leviticus doesn't teach you how to change oil in your car. Like I mean there's a lot of stuff in there that isn't intended. but when it gets into the the moral and behavioral element of how we are to think about the world, relate to God and relate to other people
it it it provides the the framework that promises us the creativity that is necessary for living well in the complexities that develop in all categories of our lives going forward. So there's there's some I'm not phrasing this well, but there's something about that reducing it to a manual is less respectful of the fullness of the message that is there. And if you reduce it to a manual, you're not taking if you reduce it merely to a manual, you're not taking it seriously enough to use it as a manual.
'Cause it's it's pointing to a a a a a a broader and more expansive change. Yeah. Help help help me say what I'm trying to say here.
Cameron (11:20.755)
Sure. If Jesus is the model, I like that model verse manual picture you gave us, then and we we have to I think part of the the trouble, Nathan, is nowadays we have to spell everything out explicitly because the way of life that characterizes Christianity is no longer something to be taken for granted. So you mentioned at the end there.
Jesus is saying is better that I go, because when I, you know, for when I go, I will send the helper of the Holy Spirit. I think there's a good chance that many of our listeners are hearing that and pop possibly nodding their heads and thinking, yeah, but how do I walking in step with the Spirit? How how does one do that? So let's the basic things that Christians do and have done down the ages involve prayer, scripture, and worship. So
In very basic terms, if those three practices are operative in your life, you have this amazing power, this personal power that is at work in you, the Holy Spirit. And you also have this amazing protection. I want to use the word protection here because fear plays a large role in what we're talking about. Let's go back to that for just a second. Just make a few
Let me make a few broad observations about American life and American culture that sometimes make me want to pull my hair out. So, what's being satirized in those messages is fear tactics. What's annoying to me about this is that so many Christians keep we ought to we ought to be able to see through this by this point. Americans ought to be able to see see through this at this point. In America
The paranoid style has played an outsized role in politics for years and years. There's a, there's a, there's a book written about this by I think it was Richard Hofstedter, for heaven's sakes. It's came this came out in the 1960s. This has been well, well documented. And yes, I know we don't like to read that much. But my point is, all sides of the political aisle, the fear tactics are just so commonplace. And yet they are because they just keep working on us again and again and again. So when I hear fearful messages about the evils of
Cameron (13:42.782)
public schools, making your children wardens of the state and that sort of thing, it immediately what it brings to mind, and you know, full disclosure to both Nathan and I have children in the public school system, but it brings to mind for me, Nathan, the the the f the fear that would what at one at one point have been invoked by evolutionary theory in the school system and how, you know, this is here's what's going to corrupt your children or
The fear of the communist manufact manifesto. If if we even see it sitting on your desk, you are an immediately you're suspect and you're a dangerous person, possibly a communist agitator. Were there were there real dangers in in all those things I just mentioned? There were. Yeah, I think it did. If you look at the the actual evidence. So
That paranoid atmosphere is very much part of what we're dealing with. But back to what if if you're praying, if you are in God's word and not as a manual, but you're actually consulting it as something that will nourish your heart and mind, but also put you back in touch with the way things are. Yeah. You are to a significant this is it's part of the armor of God. You are to a significant degree taking those precautions. You're protecting yourself. You're rooted in a community of worship that's a local church.
Nathan (14:50.904)
Shape. Yeah.
Cameron (15:04.679)
Then those those p now, none of that takes away completely the risk of talking to another human being who has views you you believe to be actively harmful. But we're still called to do it. So anyway.
Nathan (15:16.642)
Well but okay, but but in the in if Jesus is our model, think about Jesus and the Samaritan woman.
Think about the woman at the well. Think about Jesus and Pilate. Think about John the Baptist and Herod. I mean, it's it's one continuous crossing boundaries that you would not have thought possible, not out of fear, but out of mission. And so it's it's not saying you have to go adapt your vision of reality to the vision of reality of everybody around you, but it's what what in what posture are you crossing the boundaries that have been laid out for you?
I think that makes a difference.
Cameron (15:54.748)
Mm-hmm. And actually talking with people, developing relationships. And no, there are places, of course, in all of this for boundaries. Yeah.
Nathan (16:05.834)
wait, can I interrupt you? Because here's a big one from from our probably childhood. so you know, we grew up in the time of the changes and developments in gay rights and the definition of marriage, and and there were there are a whole number of my cohort who who would say things like, you know what, I met somebody who was that was gay, and it turns out they're just really a nice person. And you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait. You you thought?
Cameron (16:17.201)
Right. Yep.
Cameron (16:30.951)
Yeah, yeah, right.
Nathan (16:35.81)
That there weren't nice gay people and that the objection to their definitions and their religious constructions of the concepts of marriage had to do with whether or not they were nice. So so so it instills in us this kind of naive, and then people are like, well, it must be fine because they're nice. that y y y y you know, and seriously. So I'm I'm kind of like reeling here of like, wait, the the the entire framework by which you engage your thoughtfulness on this had nothing to do with you actually talking to somebody.
Cameron (16:37.971)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Cameron (16:51.889)
Right. I heard that a lot. Mm-hmm.
Nathan (17:05.624)
That you disagreed with and finding out that they Yeah.
Cameron (17:08.691)
So let's yeah, let's hang out here for a second. This is important. I think so. A number of things are true. It is true that, especially when you are parents dealing with children, you want to navigate territory involving big issues like that, like identity, sexuality, that sort of thing. You want to navigate that carefully. And yes, you do want to protect them. The way you talk, so that might mean there are certain
relationships that you want to push pause on or you want to wait on until you believe your children are ready. There's no I have to speak in careful terms because there are different thresholds here. You know, kids are at different stages of development, but you you navigate the territory of what you introduce them to and you you do that carefully. That's that's one thing. But without before peop before your children meet somebody like this or anything like that, the way you talk about it in your house
is going to make a world of difference. So I grew up in a home and I know Nathan did as well. A home where filled with very rich conversations. And my parents did not speak disparagingly about people who were involved in different ways of life, especially if they weren't Christians, because they would s they would one of the basic things I was taught was, no, well, non Christians are not going to behave like Christians. And you shouldn't we shouldn't expect them to.
That would be naive. And also, this is the Augustinian point of nobody is committed to a way of life out of sheer wickedness or malice, or because they think it is the wrong thing to do. In really basic, kind of stereotypical old superhero movies or cartoons or something with, you know, kids, the villains just love villainy. They relish being villains. They just love badness itself. But nobody in in
Nathan (19:02.081)
Sorry.
Cameron (19:06.447)
actually is committed to something 'cause they think it's bad, they're committed to it because they think it's good. They think it's right. They may be misguided.
Nathan (19:13.238)
Now, can that could can that not s be said too about our our our podcasting cousins who are very theologically and p politically sure that they're doing important work for the kingdom of God by and entangling themselves in all sorts of fearful warnings of
Cameron (19:38.118)
Yeah, well, and the same is true of these these keyr these keyboard warriors, all of that. These people, let's, let's have good faith statements about them and say, no, they're committed to what they're doing because they believe it's right. They believe they're reaching a huge number of people with a helpful message, with a redemptive message. That's so that if we can just concede that and recognize that, if we have that piece of anthropology, it is going to im it's going to be an immense help.
when we talk to others, it will help us to see them more as fellow human beings with real challenges, but not necessarily as direct threats or worse, villains. We don't want to villainize people like that. Is is there such a thing as evil in human life and human affairs? Of course there is. Yeah. Are there people who, through a long commitment to, you know, selfishness, have have have have had that selfishness become make them evil people? Yeah, there are evil people, yes. So no nobody's denying any of that, but
We want to operate understanding that other human beings are blazing mysteries made in the image of God, just like us, whether they're members of our community or n or not, and they're committed to what they are committed to, no matter how harmful we believe it to be, because they think it's the right thing to do. It's really important to get that straight.
Nathan (21:00.354)
I was overhearing a conversation. I should go back and get the details. Basically, this is somebody working in an emergency room setting who had a young man come in with I think what was broadly considered medically a very minor something with a finger and was melting down. This was the end of the and like I think everybody there was struggling to take him serious of like this is something that if you were three, your mom would kiss it and send you back.
Cameron (21:18.395)
Okay.
Nathan (21:29.718)
The sandbox, you know. and so you what when you get somebody who's blowing a problem into a crisis level, that you're like, that's not so ca-cause so what's what's sad about that though, and and and I don't want to I think we we want to be careful to lay this out, is that there are real consequences to political changes. There is real evil, there is real intentionality, all but Christians should be able to do a better job of discerning.
Cameron (21:31.741)
Yeah.
Nathan (21:59.061)
Of when to escalate things to code red and say, hey, you know what? That's an inconvenience. there's a way to patch this up, or the the people who can't the people who can't appropriately understand what's actually a problem and what isn't, those people are not usually helpful in the world because they're afraid of everything. And so they don't get anything missionally done. I I I love watching
Cameron (22:09.213)
Mm-hmm.
Nathan (22:27.126)
par young parents in particular develop this skill set of trying to decide what's a crisis and what isn't. and and the best parents have a more expansive version of like, okay, that was bad. That was inconvenient. I'm sorry that happened. But I don't even have to get off the couch for that one. You know, like it's it's a where where's that where's that line of I'm I'm watching what's happening. I'm I'm not sticking my head in the sand. And then where where do wh
Cameron (22:35.632)
Uh-huh.
Cameron (22:45.253)
Mm-hmm. Sure.
Nathan (22:56.588)
Yeah, how how do we how do we discern whether or not something is worth us investing the energy of blowing it to crisis level? And it just seems like we live in a culture that does that with everything all of the time. And then it gets hard to be taken seriously as somebody who is actually engaging the world as it is, if that's our default posture is just to explode at every poke.
Cameron (23:18.087)
Yeah. So I want to get practical for a second, which is not usually my strong suit. So Nathan will definitely have to come to my assistance here a little bit. But what are and think about just some habits that we can cultivate, probably several of you are already doing this, but just to help us get out a little bit more. One way that is quite straightforward is you can read more and read broadly.
That one doesn't even require you to leave your house. So if you're an introvert, this is a yay. But coming to a place, and it it di this again depends on what what you're doing. So not everybody needs to do this, but if if you want to be involved in conversations with people who disagree with you, one very helpful practice is to read broadly and widely. So I want to give an ex I want to use Nathan as an example here. Nathan has
absorbed over the years that I've known him a whole lot of literature on the broadly speaking the environmental movement, but also literature involving animal rights. He's also read a lot on utopian experiments and utopianism lately. So he he's and he's reading this directly, he's not reading Christian's interpreting this stuff. He is reading it, he's getting it directly from the horse's mouth, so to speak, finding some pretty wild stuff with his highlighter.
Nathan (24:35.438)
But but no horses were harmed in the in the extraction of this information from the horse's mouth.
Cameron (24:41.381)
That's right. All the horses are just fine. But in so doing, he's he's performing this is an act of service for his neighbor. And that's not a stretch to say that, because when he's in those conversations with people of those persuasions, or people who are, you know, more committed to a kind of a radical view of or a very materialistic view of human humanity and are thinking in those terms, drawing their ethics in that kind of from that kind of a system.
Nathan is very hospitable in those conversations because he's able to quote freely from the best thinkers in that tradition. And it's a demonstration not only of his his commitment to the ser intellectual seriousness of the conversation, but it's also it's just a it's a it's a very it's it shows his confidence in his own views, but also it's it's a generous way to
Have those conversations. My old professor Holly Hardway calls this intellectual hospitality. And I really like that phrase. Yeah.
Nathan (25:39.887)
Mm. because it is painful sometimes. I'm currently reading a book dedicated to Greta Thunberg that is like and I mean it's from academic press and you're like, this is just painful. But a huge number of people take this very seriously. And I I need to be able to understand it. and and then offer some yeah. But yeah, so I'm not saying it's easy. I mean some of it's entertaining, but some of it you're like, whew.
Cameron (25:46.747)
Okay.
Cameron (26:00.286)
And especially
Cameron (26:04.251)
And because we all tend to get very literal minded, I'm not saying everybody should read exactly what Nathan is reading. Nathan comes from a very specific region and like all of us and has lives a very specific life. Kind of a soft farmer almost. So he's already his his lifestyle and practice puts him into that conversation already on a different level from certainly from suburban me. Yeah.
Nathan (26:25.326)
S some some odd people show up in my life. Yeah. No, but mike the there's a there's a second part to the context is that I remember being in college and coming home and my mom saying about my youngest brother, she said, Abe is hanging out with so many non Christians right now. And she said, I just see this as such a fantastic opportunity for our church.
That is a pretty different posture from parenting of saying the engagement that my teenage son is having with the non Christians, there there's an expectation in her mind that he would be more formative in their lives than they would be in his.
Cameron (26:53.565)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Nathan (27:08.172)
That's a that's a bold and confident f but but that so I'm saying that the the context in which I grew up is that the church wins and is the stronger f force. And so the engagement with the world wasn't out of fear. It was out of a missional sense of spending time with the other is for the benefit of Christ and his church. It it wasn't something to be protectr from.
Cameron (27:11.219)
Yeah, it's very bold.
Cameron (27:27.219)
Okay.
Cameron (27:36.06)
Okay, but let's go back to what you said earlier. That assumes that kind of confidence, that kind of boldness that this your mom displayed is dependent on Christianity not as a set of intellectual convictions alone, but as well how do we say this? Falling you have fallen on your knees before the throne of Christ, recognize your total dependency on him, and you're anchored.
To him and the dynamics of your relationship are stimulated by a life of prayer, his word, and worship. And I find, Nathan, that what I've just said would be seen as something that's not that common. It would be more, well, that's perhaps you know a super Christian. Most of the many of the young people I meet whose parents are very, very fearful rather than confident and bold.
are young people who seem to have been given the message that Christianity is believing the right things and having this airtight set of convictions. So if that's all if it's been reduced to that, even with the best
Nathan (28:48.878)
I was gonna say that that is important. That is that is part of it.
Cameron (28:51.883)
necessary but not sufficient, I would say. A set of intellectual convic convictions. That's fine. But I mean, there are people who and I mean I often make this case, this is a cliched point, but there's there are professors at Princeton who know more about Christianity than most devoted believers in one sense, but don't know Jesus. So that's why I say necessary but insufficient. What needs what needs to be clear is that Christianity is a way of life.
devoted to being an apprentice of Jesus. If that if life of your children is anchored in that way, then yeah, they can be in those friendships and they can and you can be confident they'll be the influence. They'll be they will be salt and light. If it's just a set of intellectual con convictions to which we're we're expected to give assent, then you're considerably more vul vulnerable because there are other sets of col of of
intellectual convictions that profoundly contradict Christianity. And at a young and impressionable age, that can be if you're not anchored in practices, that can be disorienting.
Nathan (30:00.951)
Yeah, I I I my only limit on this conversation is that we've we've trended toward talking about kids. Cause I think all of this is totally operative for all age groups. and in particular, I think when you look at the the growing number of articles, journalism, research on people back like hey, pace basically my parents and grandparents live in a world of AI slop. That's a pretty common
And and and have a willingness to to believe in things and take things seriously that are satire or that are clearly fake. and so this is not a just about kids thing. This is a I I think a broader question that we will have to all work together to maintain kind of a clear vision of what what is what is worth getting worked up about. What where and 'cause I think there are actual dangers in the world.
And then we misplace them. Like somebody was saying, like, I would never let my kid go to that. And one of my brothers like, Yeah, but you leave them at home with the internet. Like, which one of those is the bigger moral danger to your to your child? And so it's it's not to say that there aren't things to be worried about, that there are not things to be concerned about. It's just that let's let's
Cameron (31:21.491)
Okay, there are things to be worried about and concerned about. Of course, always, this is a fallen world, but the notion that we ought to conduct our lives in a state of fear and agitation and paranoia, which is sometimes nobody would say it explicitly, but everything else about what they say gives you that result. You need to be afraid for this, you need to worry about this, you need to it should is that really a sound way to live?
Nathan (31:42.786)
Well it's because
Not n not being freight is considered irresponsible.
Cameron (31:51.173)
Right. Right. I think there's we could have a I think we have a future we have a future podcast in which we discuss the difference between fear and paranoia and genuine concern, which are not the same thing. And it's okay to b and also as human beings we're gonna be afraid. I mean that's fear is a normal part of life, but whipping yourself up into a constant state of fearfulness about your surrounding environment doesn't seem
Nathan (31:54.094)
That that's the world in which we live.
Cameron (32:20.455)
Like a wise idea. It's not as responsible as we seem to think it is. I think that's like I said, I think that's another episode. So look for it coming down the pipeline. But in the meantime, in the meantime, you know what's needful. You know what I'm gonna say. You've if if you've if you've enjoyed this, and there's a very good chance that you did, because Nathan
Nathan (32:29.122)
Yep.
Nathan (32:39.246)
I don't know. Statistically it's a lot of I'm still a I'm a bit of a
Cameron (32:46.051)
No, Nathan, you are delightful, my friend. You and I are delightful. We're just a delight to have around. Hey, all joking aside, if you did enjoy this, like, share, and subscribe. And tell other people what a delight thinking out loud is. And if you'd like to, yes, if you would like to mentally meander. Who doesn't want to mentally meander? That sounds great. I think we all need a little bit more mental meandering around mental meadows and more M-words. All right.
All right, if you want to support us financially, you can do that by going to www.toltogether.com.