Why So Many People Feel Hopeless Today | A Christian Response to Modern Despair
Nathan (00:00)
Hello and welcome to Thinking Out Loud. I'm your co host, Nathan Rittenhouse.
Cameron (00:03)
And I'm your co host Cameron McAllister.
Nathan (00:05)
I want to start with a shout out to all the TOL listeners and friends that we saw at the CSLI retreat in Chicago. Good times. It's fun to see you guys there. And for all the rest of you who weren't there, maybe our paths will cross somewhere else in the net upcoming year. So anyway, that was encouraging to us and fun to hang out with some of you guys in person. for you longtime listeners, you know this is a podcast about current events and Christian hope. And today, just to go way off theme and way off topic, we're gonna talk about
hopelessness and special incisive thinker here on hopelessness, Cameron McAllister. Over to you.
Cameron (00:43)
Yeah, you so you thought of hopelessness and then you thought of me. Thank you.
Nathan (00:48)
The guy with the
sad clown on the on the wall behind him. Yeah, you know.
Cameron (00:54)
We got our first clown I got my first clown complaint. And I'm really surprised it's taking this long. Happened at the Sutter Sut Summer Academy. Southern Academy. The Summer Academy. So shout out to Lorena. I'm sorry. But you know, the the the clown sends his sad regards. Let's talk about hopelessness. Well, this is on my mind, Nathan, quite a bit because because of the conversations I'm having.
I'm having a lot of conversations with people who do feel varying degrees of hopelessness. And I think you asked me a good question earlier about contemporary hopelessness versus hopelessness in the past or even hopelessness in the ancient world. And I think it's really actually helpful to bring that to bring that consideration in because it'll throw some light on our current predicament. Because hopelessness today does not look
the way it did in the past. Or we might say late modern hopelessness looks very different from ancient hopelessness. So I think the answer I gave you was really inadequate. So I'm gonna
Nathan (02:03)
So we're
what you're saying is we're better at being hopeless now than we used to be. This is an improvement in our negativity.
Cameron (02:07)
It were an improvement
on No, I would say it it's the quality of it is different. So let me see. I gave you a very inadequate answer earlier, so why why not share it inflict
Nathan (02:18)
Well yeah, do it again. Inflict it on everybody else.
Cameron (02:20)
it on everybody else? But I so it was inadequate because I was it was very broad. But just painting in broad terms, think about the soldier who falls on his own sword to evade capture by the enemies.
Or the soldier who's let in some way has has let his his fellow soldiers down or in some way and so falls falls on his own sword. All right. Now we would say that's that's hope hopelessness. I mean, it's led to suicide. That is indeed hopelessness. But it's very all the way Yeah, and
Nathan (02:49)
And biblically speaking, all the way back to King Saul would be a prime example of this.
Cameron (02:53)
King Saul is actually who I had in mind. You could also look to any, you know, you can find that in pagan literature. So but I think all of us would
instantly recognize that that is very different from the very sad phrase we use today, deaths by despair, that we see today, whether it's somebody succumbing to an addiction or whether it's somebody taking their their life in the contemporary world. So I think it's very sad, and this is distressing territory, but I think we should press into that difference for a second. Another example that I gave from the ancient world, take take a
culture and a nation or a society like like India with the caste system, at the very lowest, at the very bottom of the caste system are the people who are called the untouchables. So if you're you're you're there and if you've if you have bought into that whole way of thinking, you're you're you know, what you're whether you're a devout Hindu or whether this is this is India, you know, a thousand years ago, well, then the assumption is fatalistic.
You're here because you must be. And also because of karma, you're here, the cycle of karma, you're here because you deserve to be. So not only not only can you not escape this fate, you are deserving of this fate. So that's a form I think some of us would say that's a form of of hopelessness, right?
Nathan (04:18)
Yeah,
well it's weird though because it's like right on the cusp of being a form of comfort that comes from fatalism.
Cameron (04:25)
Right. So let's bring in another venerable ancient line of thinking that's making quite the comeback, and that is Stoicism. So
Nathan (04:32)
Mm-hmm.
Cameron (04:33)
the word there would be resignation. So there was so es especially if you read Epictetus, he's Epictetus was a slave. And he so he's not a person of nobility. And if I mean if you read Greek think ancient Greek thinkers, even if you read I mean we've talked about this before, Aristotle's Nicom Nicomachean Ethics.
I mean it's a it's a wonderful piece of writing, but sometimes people are taken aback by when he's he's recommending the beauty of friendship, a friendship united by Atelos and the the he's extolling the virtues of the contemplative life, but then he's got clauses in there. Unless you're a slave, then it doesn't count. That you No, yeah, yeah, right.
Nathan (05:09)
Yeah. And and women also don't feature too prominently in some of his yeah.
Cameron (05:14)
So if you're yeah, if you're a slave or if you're woman, if you're a second c class citizen in any way, then this doesn't none of this applies to you.
Well, Epictetus was a slave, and so he is writing very, I think, in a very powerful and profound way about res stoical what we would call stoical resignation. You resigned to your fate. What was the picture, Nathan, of somebody tied to a chariot that was dragging them along and then just or or f going down a stream and instead of fighting, which will make the journey your you know, your your plummet down the stream much more tough?
Just resigning yourself and surrendering to the current.
Nathan (05:52)
Go with the flow, you might say. Or or is there
Cameron (05:54)
Going with the flow literally. Yeah.
Nathan (05:56)
is there a a modern parallel, you know, the the meme of the dog and everything's on fire and it's this is fine. yeah,
Cameron (06:00)
This is fine. Yeah.
Nathan (06:02)
so so what what like let me see if I can point to something that's a commonality in all of these is that there is a grand narrative and the and people see
Cameron (06:11)
Mm.
Nathan (06:12)
themselves in the grand narrative, and even if it isn't what we would call quote a good situation.
Cameron (06:18)
Right.
Nathan (06:19)
Their
ability to envision themselves within a broader story stabilizes the way in which they hold their less than perfect situation.
Cameron (06:28)
That's well said. So even if we're talking about the torturous karmic cycle, you're still talking about a coherent story vision in which you are a you play a part.
Nathan (06:42)
Well, and you get this in Christianity too. I mean, the book of First Peter is, okay, you're suffering, but that doesn't mean you don't live a holy life. You need to live a holy life while you're suffering, and then people will ask you about the hope that you have in spite of that.
Cameron (06:56)
Yes. And even if you're if we're talking about another category I didn't I didn't mention was shame and honor cultures. So Japan falls in this category. This is still a problem today in Japan. I I I can't speak too much about that because I just my knowledge there is quite limited, but I understand that the shame and honor culture is still deeply ingrained in Japan. But in ancient Japan, certainly there's a word for this. I'm not gonna butcher the pronunciation. But basically where if you have brought shame to your people.
Or to your family, you expiate by committing suicide. There there and there is a specific word for this type of this type of suicide. So that again, we're we're talking about, but that's deeply it's highly relational.
Nathan (07:37)
Yeah, but that's a highly relational. That's a highly relational.
Cameron (07:40)
It's deeply connected to it is that also is itself connected to a story. And it's some of this. So we're talking about different shame and honor or fatalism, very different from.
what we're dealing with today. So I think let me go with the story kind of line of thinking for just a moment, Nathan, because I think that's where that's where we're gonna encounter a serious difference. There was Arthur Lovejoy wrote the p the book The The Great Chain of Being. And that's an intellectual, it's a very good book. It's a it's an intellectual history of the venerable idea of the great chain of being where everything in the cosmos has a place.
It might be it might be on the a lower rung of the ladder, but everything has its place in the great chain of being. And all I can say is that chain for part of one of the symptoms of the late modern world is that chain has been severed. And it's I don't I don't think we sh I don't I mean we can if you want. I don't think we should spend too much time in this particular podcast talking about how that chain got severed, because that would take us off track. But that it has been severed, I think most people will recognize.
And the way I would put it is everything we do now so everything there's is there still are there still many narratives that people give the you know, that people believe they're living and give their lives to? Is there still religion? Is there still belief? Absolutely, of course. I I do think ch Charles Taylor is really helpful here when he says, Yeah, religion or belief hasn't gone away, but the conditions have changed.
Nathan (09:13)
Well let me quote, you know, Charles Taylor's pretty heavy hitter, so let's bring Stan and Jan Bernstein in here. do you ever read the Bernstein Bears? I I have some I have some
Cameron (09:21)
Bernstein Bears. Reservations?
Nathan (09:25)
res reservations, particularly on the portrayal of the masculine and the paternal figure in that. But anyway, we'll talk to my that's
Cameron (09:31)
That's another episode.
Nathan (09:32)
another another episode. No, there it's so they what book is it? I don't know, maybe it shows up a couple of times. They have a neighbor. I think it's farmer Ben.
And and they're always talking about how far farmer Ben's farm is well organized or it's orderly. And the little phrases that he has is a a place for everything and everything in its place. And this creates kind of this this place of contentment and organization and peace, because there's a place for everything and everything is in its place. And to run that back through the Charles Taylor and the yeah.
others is to say that basically what we're saying is that living in a time of hopelessness, we don't know what it is that we are, we don't know our place. And even if we did, we wouldn't know how to get into the right place. And that breeds
Cameron (10:21)
Yep.
Nathan (10:22)
chaos.
Cameron (10:23)
It really does. We're because human beings are not meant to live in the shadow of that assumption that they're really not only maybe the question of do I have a place? Or worse, maybe there is no place to begin with. Now that is so let's I want to also bracket discussions about the efficacy of scientific naturalism.
Or materialism or all of all of these kinds of, you know, isms and thought systems. So you can you can you can do a logical demolition job on all of them pretty easily. But what we're talking about right now is what sociologists will call a mood and what kids today would call a vibe. And it's really important because we're this is the way this is the felt reality or quiddity. This is the felt reality
Nathan (11:14)
Yeah, they get.
Cameron (11:15)
of people nowadays. You it's not that
Christianity isn't an option. But the fact that I'm using the word option. So first Charles Taylor would swoop in here and say, Yeah, it is an option and it's always contested. You are always keen you can never be unself consciously a a Christian, a Hindu, a Muslim, 'cause you're always gonna be keenly aware that there are other competing ideas and religious belief systems. And yeah.
Nathan (11:41)
Yeah, but
but that's only for stated religious beliefs. I I I think the the predominant feature of the hopelessness that we culturally experience is that
Cameron (11:51)
Mm-hmm.
Nathan (11:52)
it isn't a defined articulated belief. It's just the natural condition that we feel like we've landed in, and
Cameron (11:58)
Yes.
Nathan (11:59)
it's so we're it's it's a unexamined collection of cultural subconscious assumptions that land us where we are.
Cameron (12:11)
And if you living if you're living in the shadow of unbelief, if you're living in the shadow of the sneaking suspicion, I'd rather call it that. Not even a thought, a fear, a fear that behind that everything ultimately is a facade and that behind it all is just disorder, chaos.
Yeah, that is going to lead to a very a very different kind of hopelessness from the one that we were talking about earlier. That's a type of hopelessness that is connected to a sense of purposelessness. That's a kind of hopelessness that would say, What if what if all of this doesn't mean anything in the first place? In a sense, some of the the the suicides I referenced earlier, those were
Those were perpetrated and committed because people believed that their actions were of such powerful consequence and such significance that they were no longer deserving of life. Very different from someone saying,
This life is so intrinsically meaningless, why go on?
Nathan (13:20)
Yeah. Let so let's flesh that out 'cause that's an important distinction. So you're saying in the one, you're saying my life is so significant and and my degree of agency is so high that I've messed things up. Yeah.
Cameron (13:29)
If I fail, yeah, then I I
deserve then I must I should take my own life.
Nathan (13:33)
And the more likely version of despair is that my life is so meaningless and pointless, it's inconsequential. I'm just
Cameron (13:39)
Yes.
Nathan (13:40)
taking up oxygen.
Cameron (13:41)
Okay. So if we want to think about how we move forward in this atmosphere, and if we want to do so as as as Christians, I think that's a very worthwhile discussion. Because this is very mu these like I said, Nathan, I'm it's this is not abstract territory for me. It's not like I'm just sitting there with Charles Taylor a Charles Taylor book in my hands. These are these are conversations.
Nathan (15:28)
And a good Russian novel.
Cameron (15:30)
And a good rush to know. These are conversations
Nathan (15:30)
So
Cameron (15:31)
you and I are having on a pretty routine basis. So
Nathan (15:37)
Well, cat wait, can I make it a little bit more pessimistic first before you start work digging us out of the hole? Yeah, yeah, I'm doing it. Brace yourself.
Cameron (15:41)
No, no, no, no. I can't do any more I'm just kidding. Okay. Go for it.
Nathan (15:45)
what we don't want to be suggesting is that we just need to find a story that we can convince ourselves is true and then live by that. I I think cause i it seems to me like Christianity can some yeah, are saying something like that of
Cameron (15:54)
Plenty of people are saying that, actually. Yeah. Yeah.
Nathan (15:59)
and I I think for the thoughtful person that doesn't like you can't trick yourself into believing something.
That you know you conjured up to stabilize your own life.
Cameron (16:09)
No, well that that would be the whole line of, well, Christianity works for me, but maybe Wicca works for you because I like long walks in the woods. I can feel a sense of of of real presence there and holiness, or or maybe healing crystals work for you. I mean, it's these are just I think of the lines from, you know, what's her name? Tara Isabella Burton's
Book Strange Rights, she has she has a chapter in there where she interviews some of the people who are engaging in these practices. And what they say is really, really revealing. They say things like, Well, this is how I practice self-care, or this is how I make meaning. This is the one that really haunted me. This is how I I so this particular lady was talking about yoga in her life. But I mean, you could substitute any other practice in there for for what she says. This is how I might make make meaning out of the experiences of my life.
So for some people who are thoughtful and are at a point of despair, the phrase make meaning will just fill them with with more sadness because what what what
Nathan (17:12)
Emptiness, yeah.
Cameron (17:13)
yeah, what they'd be after is not meaning that I'm making, like clay in my hands, but re intrinsic real meaning that I discover.
Nathan (17:21)
Well, okay, let's keep going downhill a second here. Sorry, I interrupted your up upward trajectory, but there's also a f a form of this that isn't expressed in implicit statements of making my own meaning. There's a whole nother realm here where we're dealing with hopelessness just purely by distraction. And so is there really any meaningful difference between saying, I want to practice some sort of new age spiritualism that having long walks in the woods
helps me with from saying, Yeah, or I just watch four hours of YouTube videos before I go to bed.
Y like y yeah, I you're th one of those isn't articulated in religious terms, but it is something that's totally only necessary if you're trying to distract yourself from thinking about other categories of life.
Cameron (18:09)
Yes. Well, Pascal's pretty helpful on that one because his his way of and he was he considered himself a modern person. He was writing in the in the seventeen hundreds and he wa he was. But he would say that the the what he called diversions or distractions, he he focuses a lot on gambling in in in his own, you know, the thoughts that he jotted down, which are now Ponse's, which was never he never intended that for they weren't formalized, which is pretty amazing.
Nathan (18:38)
Just little
pinned papers inside his coat.
Cameron (18:40)
Yeah, jottings of a genius. But he would say that that proves that we are in despair. If we if and so this is a good l litmus test for all of us, if you live your life in such a way that you fill it with as much noise as possible, and I'm gonna now I'm gonna make things worse. And then and then we we gotta crawl then we gotta stop then we
Nathan (19:00)
Okay. Okay.
Cameron (19:01)
gotta throw our shovels out and stop ducking this hole. But if you fill your life with as much noise as possible.
So that you can avoid actually real introspection. That's a sign of despair. Now, there's an evangelical version of this though. There's a Christian version of this. I'm gonna pick on the evangelicals because that's that's those are the people I've I've I've grown up among. And I will tell you it goes like this. You talk about how you've you've got a growing sense of purposelessness in your life. You feel empty, you feel hollow. So what are a lot of happy clappy, well meaning evangelicals gonna do?
They're gonna recommend a stack of books to you and podcasts and YouTube. They're gonna send you YouTube videos. And so they're what what are they gonna recommend? They're gonna recommend a lot of noise to you. And that can be its own distraction as well. So sometimes you gotta be careful with this, but sometimes we actually do need to stare into the abyss of our condition. We really do to understand.
Our place as human beings. If we're gonna understand our place as human beings, we have to give up on the notion that we're in control or that we're gods or that we're that we are somehow God. And some of this, I think, if you really push it hard, is predicated on a deep sense of betrayal. We feel we should have we should be calling the shots. And after all, everything around us screams that you are calling the shots. I mean, you, you know, the algorithm
caters to you. You customize everything in your life around your own comfort and convenience. And then we're shocked by what we call a weather event. A significant
Nathan (20:42)
Yeah.
Cameron (20:42)
weather event. I remember George Carlin once said, a weather event? Well, how do I get tickets to that?
Nathan (20:48)
Yeah.
Cameron (20:49)
But we're not, we're but we actually are still human beings. This is where I mean Pascal has this whole very, very unsparing kind of tirade he goes on about how frail and
Weak and and small and diminished human beings are. And then he says, you know, human beings w man is a reed, but he is a thinking reed. So we have self awareness. So there's something special about us, but
Nathan (21:12)
Well, okay, so ha this is the way in which we start to get out of this is is to point out that recognizing brokenness, bleakness, and dis fracturing chaos and despair is not synonymous with hopelessness. So Jesus looked at the world and saw that it was broken.
Cameron (21:32)
Yes.
Nathan (21:33)
I I think if if anybody had like a a handle on hey it said he didn't entrust himself to to men because he knew their hearts, or he looked at Jerusalem and wept over it and said, If only you knew the things that made for peace. So this is not to say that you need to put on blinders to real issues in the world in order to be hopeful. It's rather saying, Okay, in light of the brokenness that I see, what is the role that I'm called to within this? And so for Jesus that was service.
not running away. So that's this is where I think the the anthropological element of our our understanding of our concept of salvation is is the south is salvation something that we receive and then it's a special token that we keep in our pocket and then when we die we present it? Or is it the adaptation of our lives to the plan that God is working out and calls us to participate in in response to the brokenness
That also grieves God in the world. And so there's so you and I, Cameron, look at brokenness and see a call to action, not a narrative of defeat. But it but that's the difference between you often make this distinction between, you know, optimism and hope. It's it's not optimistic. and who was it that talks about? Is it is it NT Wright talking about hope being a f a form of recognizing that.
That the good might not come to fruition until after your life.
Cameron (23:05)
Yes.
Nathan (23:06)
a sense there. So help clarify a little bit of this I ability to see the world in its brokenness as a as a a call to participate in what God is working, and that being
Cameron (23:18)
Yes.
Nathan (23:18)
the foundation of the motivation and the sense of appropriate agency that we have, where A, we're not making this all about ourselves narcissistically as we try to be our own little gods, but B, we're also not being like, Well, I'm just a thinking ape.
I'm that's in the way.
Cameron (23:34)
Well, I think
Nathan (23:34)
Is that where we have to start?
Cameron (23:36)
well I think yeah, I think part of the problem is we in the West and Evangelicals, we conflate earthly success with Christian success. And the two are not necessarily the th the same thing. And that we you could do that and get away with it during a time of cultural stability where things were, you know, going reasonably well. There was there was a sense that sense of stability was there. When that when you reach a point of crisis and faith comes with a cost.
And doesn't come with immediate social and material advantages, it becomes a harder sell sometimes. And that's where the optimism thing comes in. So optimism is just, you know, we all know what it is. It's just that's the that's the assumption that things will work out in the end. Some t a hopeless optimist is the person who thinks everything will work out in the end regardless of the circumstances.
Nathan (24:25)
Mm, mm-hmm.
Cameron (24:26)
Hope runs deeper than that because hope doesn't ask, will this work? Hope asks things like, is this the right thing to do to do? And so hope is a long-term expectation that would either exceed or transcend current circumstances. The diff Christian hope is is tied specifically to Jesus Christ and his life, death, and resurrection. So success is a part of this, but it's success that's
Our Lord's success. So that's eschatological success. So that is the long game awaiting full restoration.
Nathan (24:59)
Yeah, but but that does not preclude
a sense of fullness in the present.
Cameron (25:06)
No, you were made so even if you took ten people off the street in a peaceful and kind and loving manner, gathered them together and gave them pizza and stuff, and then asked them all, What's the most important thing about life in life? What makes what makes life worth living? They would all say something along the lines eventually, if they boiled past it all, they'd say, Well, love. Relationship.
Other people, you know, love and relationships. And if you ask these same people, well, what's the best way to live? How should everybody live? They would all give you some version of the golden rule. They would say, well, because love and relationship is at the heart of what makes life worth living, we ought to treat one another well and do unto others. So when you look at Christianity, you see that vision so extremely
It it is it's so enriched and so deepened by Jesus, you can see not only the worth of life here and now, but you see that life here and now will from our human standpoint not feel worthwhile unless we are serving others, like you just said, Nathan.
And you won't you will not experience real love, even even in it just in just the day-to-day life outside the church, unless you're you are pouring into other people. The more you and this is folk wisdom. We all know the more you pour into other people, the more fulfilling your life is. Even if you're giving if if you're doing so in a self-sacrificial manner, you're giving away your time, you're giving away your money, you're giving you're volunteering at a soup kitchen, whatever it is.
the more fulfilling and the more enriched your existence is. Well, what if that's a clue about the nature of reality? And what if that's a clue about human nature, what you are made for? Christianity says it is.
Nathan (27:12)
Yeah, that
and there's let's let's add to that in the sense that, you know, a a lot of our visions and ideas and ideals never come come about. Plato never lived in his perfectly re perfect republic. and so I do think we do have that human sense and desire for these things to be manifest in our lives, and Christianity does give us clarity and language for that, but also we can't factor out the promise of the Holy Spirit who enables us to do these things.
And I think that's the additional element here of a lot of people have high ideals for themselves, are very ambitious, and continuously fall short of the ideals that they have for themselves because you just can't willpower yourself into living up to your own idea of your own good enough to build satisfaction. And so there has to be some sort of divine enablement, human Christians using the the the idea of of walking in the spirit or being in step with the spirit.
Or apart from me, you can do nothing, that there is a a necessary connection to the will of God in order for us to be able to live up into the ideals for which we've been created. And so we want to cheat here. it's so it's either cheating or it's good news. if you're looking at this as a a meaning making exercise, you're saying, well, that's just, you you're throwing a wrinkle in there. But if you're thinking, I know this is really true, then that additional layer.
Of saying we are not left on our own in order to bring this about suddenly becomes good news in this whole project of living well.
Cameron (28:51)
Yes. If you look at human life, you all you couldn't help but draw the conclusion that we if you're thinking responsibly, that we all need one another. But you also couldn't help but draw the conclusion that we left to our own devices, can't do what we actually know we need to do. You know, that Jacob Needleman wrote a book years ago called Why Can't We Be Good talking about this very question. He's a secular philosopher, and he just argued, we all know what we need to do. We all know that we should practice the g we ought to practice the golden rule, but we can't seem to do it. I mean it's a really profound thought, isn't it? And that this is where staring into the abyss a little bit can be helpful. You
Nathan (29:41)
Okay,
except I let me just be clear that I I'm on the side of the person who's feeling like this isn't making any sense of them because historically speaking, you didn't have to figure this out on your own. By and large, you had a community to tell you what your role was and where you fit into the story and what you're supposed to be doing with your life and even what your job was and and all of that. And the fact of the matter is, Cameron, it's pretty
evident to me that there are a lot of people who are very gifted at things, but they themselves don't know it and they need other people to tell them that they are and to call that out in them. And so our our capacity to be
Cameron (30:16)
I know I needed that. Yeah.
Nathan (30:18)
able to analyze ourselves accurately is is far lower than we would like to think. And so there's a bit of a vortex, a doom loop here where we get isolated and then we're not connected to the people who could help us see what our role in the world is. And that makes us feel more isolated and then we're more disconnected from the people who
And so I think this is a uniquely challenging time. That being said, sometimes recently said to somebody who is pretty hyper about something, I said, your emotions are correct, but they're temporary. There's
Cameron (30:49)
Mm-hmm.
Nathan (30:49)
more to this situation. So I'm I'm validating the feeling that you have. It's not wrong to feel that way, but you need to zoom out a little bit and recognize that tomorrow when you get up, things are going to look a whole lot different because you're going to remember more of what's going on here. And so
I think that would be the word of encouragement that I would have to somebody who's listening to this who's feeling a little bit of despair is to say you you might not be in the spot. If you think about this deeply, it'll drive you to the humility of recognizing that you probably don't have a handle on all of reality based off of your own energy and that you you need a little help. And just because you can't see a solution to something in 2026 does not mean that there isn't a solution to it. It just means that you haven't.
seen it yet. And I remember years ago talking to a young lady who was suicidal and who didn't see a purpose or a point to her life. And I was like, yeah, but I do. And so for this moment, hang in there. And I would like you to trust me that there is a purpose to your life here for the next few hours while we work through this. And so take that as a gift that you can give other people too is to say, hey, just because you can't see this doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. And if you're feeling in that spot yourself, just because you can't see your way out of it doesn't mean that there isn't a way out of it.
It's just that you haven't been shown the way out of it yet. And so that yet part is a crucial element of a legitimate hope because it's saying there's more to the story than meets the eye, and all things will be well, not all things are well.
Cameron (32:21)
Think on these things. If you find yourself in a place like that, cry out to God in as honest and raw a fashion as you please. You're not going to offend him. He's not afraid of anything that's inside of you. In fact, he he knows everything that's inside of you. If you can't pray, turn to the Psalms and pray the Psalms. And then
Seek out God's people.
Nathan (32:55)
Walk down the street to the nearest little old wooden building and knock on the door.
Cameron (32:59)
Yeah.
Thank you for for listening. We know that this is this is a very real, real topic, and it's a and it's and many of you find yourselves in various sections of the woods on this one. So yeah. Our prayer for you is that you will
Pause and yeah, listen to to Nathan
Nathan (33:30)
Be be honest.
Cameron (33:31)
yeah, be honest and listen to Nathan's Nathan's words there. You may not see your purpose right now, but we do, and plenty of others do as well. You've been listening to Thinking Out Loud, a podcast where we think out loud about current events and Christian hope.
Nathan (33:52)
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